In the Shadow of the Rose (1 Viewer)

[hank solo]

Whats the story with In the Shadow of the Rose?

As far as I know, this was only ever a 1st edition, 1st printing hardback (750 deluxe hardcover copies all signed?) and then all the poems ended up being reissued a year later in The Last Night of the Earth (except for This Rejoinder? - info from mjps original database)

Wasn't that ... weird?

Is there a story there somewhere?

BTW - anyone got a copy of In the Shadow for me cheap? :D

 

[hank solo]

In reply to my post of a few mins ago, I just read this:

http://www.jp41.dial.pipex.com/R1453.HTML

Excerpt:

Dedicated to actor/activist Sean Penn, the book has (not surprisingly) quite a bit to say, in general terms anyway, about some of Penn's pet projects (in the activism, not the acting, world), and as we all know by now, message poetry tends to be boring and ugly, with a vastly overinflated sense of its own self-importance. Many of the pieces to be found here fall into this category.

Can anyone tell me the story of this book and if there is any, its significance?

 

[zoom man]

I've got a copy I'd sell you.....
But what do you mean by cheap?!:D

 

[mjp]

In reply to my post of a few mins ago, I just read this:

http://www.jp41.dial.pipex.com/R1453.HTML

It would be very much out of character for Bukowski to write poems about anything Sean Penn is up to, even in "general terms." I think whoever wrote that review is doing a lot of projecting and assuming and I would think it's someone who knows next to nothing about Bukowski and his work. But I read his other reviews of Bukowski on that site, and he is familiar with a lot of his work, but the reviews still read very weird.

There's something off about them. He grudgingly gives props for something while insulting him with three other lines. And he's written five Bukowski reviews on that site. So it's kind of like..."Oh my, I hate this guy! He's awful! I can't stop reading every word he's written!"

You figure it out, I can't.

But about In the Shadow of the Rose, it isn't really that odd. There were other Black Sparrow titles that came out in a single edition and were never reprinted (though most of the work showed up in later mainstream editions). Not a lot, but some -- The Day It Snowed In LA, Scarlet, Red, You Kissed Lilly...

 

[MarkDB]

Yeah, I've always been curious about the history behind "Rose". I bought a copy when it first came out at the very reasonable price of ($50 I think). Based on such a small printing and the pretty turquoise paper and shit, I thought it would escalate in value like crazy. It never really has comparatively speaking. I think I see it for a wide range up to $750 for sale but also see it for as little as $250 (though haven't checked recently). And, that paper (rather than acetate) DJ is a bitch to protect. It is very thin and almost tears when you look at it. I am not interested in selling my copy but will let you know if I ever am.

 

[mjp]

Well, like I said in another post, Martin knew his audience, and he knew he could spend a little more than a regular hardcover would cost to produce, throw fewer pages into it (sometimes much fewer, as opposed to the 200 - 350 pages in a collection) and sell out a limited edition for 2 to 3 times what he could get for a typical collection hardcover.

I've read (in one of the letters collections?) that Bukowski thought catering to "collectors" was kind of ridiculous, but pretty much shrugged it off and left the business side of things to Martin.

To me, things like In the Shadow of the Rose or You Kissed Lilly were just pandering to collectors who would buy anything with Bukowski's name on it. And to add insult to injury, the bulk of the work in the thin, limited edition books was later reprinted in the inexpensive collections.

Apparently that backfired with Heat Wave which was really lavish and expensive, and I believe retailed at $1500 or so when it was released. From what I heard (which is just rumor, so take it with a grain of salt) Martin had to sit on most of the copies of that for a long time, eventually leaking them out to dealers at well under the initial wholesale price.

Nothing wrong with catering to that market, I suppose. I re-read this and it sounds anti-collector, but I didn't mean it that way.

 

[nymark]

A very minor point of publication -- the 750 copies of SHADOW were issued with the aforementioned thin turquoise paper jacket, however, there were 26 lettered copies that were issued without the paper jacket and with the more resilient acetate that wraps most of the other Black Sparrow titles. Why Martin didn't use acetate for the entire print run is a mystery.

 

[mjp]

Wasn't one of the issues of the Webb's Outsider also wrapped in a thin paper? Interesting, yes, that the makers would use materials that they had to assume would be easily damaged or destroyed.

 

[nymark]

Yes. The hardcover issue #4/5 of the Outsider was published with a ultra-thin rice paper jacket. It is almost always in torn and tattered condition. The paper jacket of SHADOW is rock solid in comparison! What in God's name was Webb thinking?

 

[mjp]

The Outsider always seemed to have an odd mix of paper stocks. The Bukowski "Outsider of the Year" issue has a section that seems to be on cheap newsprint (very yellowed) right next to tissue picture interleaves, and weird waffle paper...never a dull moment with the Webbs.