Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski by Linda King - Forthcoming Memoir

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
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The one I really look forward to is Linda King's Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski, which is supposed to come out this year. (MJP)

Any news about her book?

I just read chapter 35 in Jahrbuch der Charles-Bukowski-Gesellschaft. Promising!
 

cirerita

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there's also an excerpt in the Bukowski special published by Beat Scene back in 2004.
 

HenryChinaski

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man I dunno about Linda King. After reading Women, and then seeing her real life account of what went on between them in her interview on the BBC doc. I find her to be a real cunt. Seems like she went out of her way to make sure that Buk suffered. I don't think I'll be getting this book.
 

poptop

Over 500 posts
Their relationship was turbulent...but I think there were some good moments when Hank truly loved her, as manic as some of her actions were in their five-year relationship. She was wild and probably unstable and probably not really able to be objective about their time together. She did though make for a good read in Women, and Hank may have appreciated Linda No. 2 more because of Linda No. 1.

For some strange reason, I never felt he had the same degree of passion for Linda No. 2, though there certainly appeared to be a solid, enduring, stabilizing and abiding love between them. Maybe it was the totality of those factors that made it the loving relationship it was (with its few dark moments). My impression is only 3rd hand and I could be completely wrong about his degree of passion for her. In fact, I hope I am wrong. However, I do think some of the women who received letters from him, who may now be struggling mentally or financially, should be permitted, if at all possible, to profit from their letters with Bukowski. I no longer feel that his image needs protecting, except from the blatant copyright thieves, because he did the worst to himself in words, recordings and deeds (sometimes being completely drunk out of his mind) and yet he still made it as a great and successful writer and probably became a hundred-thousand- dollar-aire. And so far, I haven't witnessed any great acts of generosity of action from Bukowski's estate where some things might be legally permitted, if they happened to be blocked, so some of these women might better survive in their senior years. But then, rival females have been known to remain petty and jealous of each other for many years. Of course, so do men.

I think what I'm wondering about here is who owns the copyright to the letters he wrote to his female companions of the moment? My feeling is that if it's solely under the control of Buk's estate the copyright should be shared. He'd have had a great deal less to write about without them, that's for sure, and he'd have been porking more pillows than pussy. "”Poptop.
 
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chronic

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I think what I'm wondering about here is who owns the copyright to the letters he wrote to his female companions of the moment? My feeling is that if it's solely under the control of Buk's estate, the copyright should be shared. He'd have had a great deal less to write about without them, that's for sure, and he'd have been porking more pillows than pussy.
I'm no attorney, but I believe that the content of a letter is considered the author's "intellectual property," so the copyright would remain with the author or their estate. The physical letter itself clearly belongs to the person that it was sent to (or to whomever the letter was legally transfered), they just don't have the right to reprint it or make money from it (the content) without the permission of the copyright holder. Yeah, I agree that it would be fair that, if these letters were to be reprinted, the person to whom it was addressed be compensated somehow, and I imagine that that person could withhold the letter from publication if they chose to.
 
man I dunno about Linda King. After reading Women, and then seeing her real life account of what went on between them in her interview on the BBC doc. I find her to be a real cunt. Seems like she went out of her way to make sure that Buk suffered. I don't think I'll be getting this book.
then steal it.
With regards to copyright law, I'm no lawyer but I believe that the ownership does lie in the person who received the letter. Copyright does lie in regards to the writer but to the extent that if exerpted, the author must be cited. This happened to Salinger when he sued a biographer who used letters he wrote to some girl. The judge said that the author cannot block publication in exerpted form, stipulating a difference between this and a collected letters series.
I know the Burroughs estate is having difficulty getting out a second volume of letters because the people who own those letters wont give them up- most likely they want more money than is reasonable for such an obscure author.
What is also interesting is bootlegs of concerts, readings, television programs, etc. Apparently if it is blatantly a private recording (Ie. someone snuck a recording device into the theater, videotaped the Tv or just pirated a source tape) they are exempt from prosecution. This was a problem that plagued Zappa, leading him to bootleg the bootleggers and resell their tapes. Like I said, I'm not a lawyer but if you wanted to avoid getting in trouble from the music downloading gestapo, just corrupt the file a little bit, change the volume level and call it a "remix"- fair use. But that's besides the point.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Over 5000 posts
But it would be legal to sell the letters on ebay, right? Or publish them as excerpts. I wonder if you can publish a letter, minus one or two insignificant paragraphs, an just call it an excerpt. I mean, how do you define an excerpt?
 

mjp

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I just read chapter 35 in Jahrbuch der Charles-Bukowski-Gesellschaft. Promising!
That was good, wasn't it. It made me want to read the rest, kind of like coming across a chapter of Richmond's Spinning Off Bukowski in ATOM MIND magazine, way back when.

A first hand account by someone who holds as notorious a spot in Bukowski's "mythology" as King does is sort of problematic though. It must be very difficult for her to write objectively about their time together. I'm sure she has many things she would like to "set the record straight" about, and that could color the recollections. But you really have to take the recollections of people who were as fucked up as they were much of the time with a grain of salt anyway (speaking of Richmond).

But yeah, the chapter was very promising.
 
Linda Tore Buks Love Paper To Bits

I agree with HenryChinaski that Linda seemed a bit of a cunt. WOMEN all you read about is a out of control leatch banging anything just to irk Buk. Sure, he admits no perfection on his end.

One good thing she did do. She pushed him to banging lots of cunts from Texas to Malibu....so I'm sure Buks Purple Onion was very thankful for Linda....in many levels of many ways.
 

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Over 1000 posts
That was good, wasn't it. It made me want to read the rest, kind of like coming across a chapter of Richmond's Spinning Off Bukowski in ATOM MIND magazine, way back when.

A first hand account by someone who holds as notorious a spot in Bukowski's "mythology" as King does is sort of problematic though. It must be very difficult for her to write objectively about their time together. I'm sure she has many things she would like to "set the record straight" about, and that could color the recollections. But you really have to take the recollections of people who were as fucked up as they were much of the time with a grain of salt anyway (speaking of Richmond).

But yeah, the chapter was very promising.
We don't know Linda King neither we do know Charles Bukowski.

Like a celebrity replied to a person who approached him: "Hey! I know you!!!", "no mister you don't know me, you recognize me".
 
It's probably still worth reading, though. We can always check-it-out at the library, thus, not supporting her. That is, if she's as bad as you say.
 

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Over 1000 posts
I was kinda surprised that you also read das Jahrbuch...

But I thought....these Bukowski "fans" buy everything, doesn't matter they publish magazines about him in China, bukowski.net members will buy it!

Until last night. Reading a few more articles in das Jahrbuch, and yes....there he is.....the BIG BOSS of bukowski.net, page 92 and 93.

Nice:)
 

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Over 1000 posts
Well, anyone....

Would be cool to invite another bukowski.net member for the 11th Jahrbuch, 2007.

I had two candidates in my mind, poptop is my nr.2. But he would fill the entire Jahrbuch!

My vote goes to.......Bukfan!
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Over 5000 posts
WHAT!!! - I'm baffled...and very flattered! :o
 
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E

Eldragon

I wonder if she sold his 'head?'

bukbronze.gif
How much she could get for it?
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
Hi,
The first low bid amount was $1000. Then a few hours later, the minimum was raised to $3000. I guess that Scott (her son) decided that it was too risky putting it up at a $1000 minimum. I have no doubt that it would have sold for that and regret that I did not put a bid in for it. Of course, I can't afford it, but it would be nice. I did not look to see if it sold for $3000, but I doubt it...

Bill
 

jose leitao

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The one I really look forward to is Linda King's Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski, which is supposed to come out this year. (MJP)

Any news about her book?

I just read chapter 35 in Jahrbuch der Charles-Bukowski-Gesellschaft. Promising!
Loving and Hating... that title says it all right there...

I also got the impression from what I read about Buk And King, that their relation was something Buk felt much better off without.
 

roni

Over 5000 posts
Since I've read the whole manuscript of the book, I may add some thoughts:

1st: There's no doubt it is worth publishing! It's no big 'literature', but isn't meant to be anyway. It is especially a very fine addition to the first part of 'Women' and some of the short-stories of that time. We see the same things happen from the viewpoint of the other person involved. That's a phantastic chance, since Buk's work, however auto-biographical is meant to be literature, so we never know what truly happened. I wouldn't, of course, believe everything someone says just b/c it's meant to be 'true', but sure this spreads perspectives.

2nd: The Bukowski-Society is intending to publish it. (That's why I've gone through the whole thing.) Yet, at the moment, we lack the capacities to go ahead. So maybe some other publisher will come first. (I hope not.)

3rd: Linda King is a very friendly person (these days). I didn't know her in the early 70s, but guess I couldn't have stand her then. Any person who dares throwing out my writings and books and paintings out of the window would have to leave the country and change their names immediately! But times may have changed her a little. She is a nice old lady.

4th: an anecdote: When Linda King was at Andernach, someone asked her if it's true, what Buk wrote about her trying to drive her car over him in jalousy. She was leaning her head a little and very charmingly answering: "Well, er, yes." You shoulda seen her then - it was sweet!

5th: trivia: as far as I know she is the only person, Buk has ever dedicated two books to. ('Erections' and 'Mockingbird')

6th: Her book does not only consist of Buks letters to her. (besides her own prose-text, it has also her letters to him and poems from both of them from that time) So if they were to be left due to copyright reasons, it would still make a book. I don't know about US-rights but what had been stated here about the 'excerpt' rights is most likely to be true - not in the way Bukfan was joking about, of course. The point is to save people who need to quote in order to do researches (goes for ANY kind of 'science' btw). It's questionable if the big amount of original work will go as necessary excerpts at a court. But on the other hand, I don't see why anybody would want to go to court at all for such a thing.
(and I'd add my personal view about the discussion, who has the copyright in letters: sure the author will always have the copyright since it was his/her creation - but the 'copy-right' should also be with the person who received it, since it has been a gift. Like: when Andy Warhol was giving a picture to a friend, could the Warhol-estate come now and claim any rights? - sure, this is only an oppinion.)

7th:
contributions to the next yearbook r welcome! Suggest a topic (new thread or via email)!

Love, roni
 
M

MULLINAX

Could you post the entire book here, on this site, so we can enjoy it? Thanks!
 
Well its obvious the book would be worth reading..Bukowski needed a crazy sexed up women or WOMAN cus thats what she was/is ..he was young and wailin back then..also, whats not been said is how GOOD that bust of Buk is..it realy is a fuckin fine portrait of the man..I would dearly love to walk around it..she said also she introduced Buk to the fine art of the blow job..is that true?
"beware womengrown old who were never anything but young"
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
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She claimed she taught him how to perform cunnilingus.
Yes, I agree it's a great sculpture.
 

cirerita

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There's this uncollected story where a friend of B is performing cunnilingus on a young gal but he's not satisfied with his own technique, and B. says: "You don't know how to do it. Let me show you!", and he just does it. That was after Linda showed him how to do it. Apparently, B was pretty ignorant on cunnilingus grounds before he met Linda.
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
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Too busy trying to remember Oswald...
 
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