Schopenhauer - Nietzsche - Bukowski (1 Viewer)

[roni]

There have been requests for my address held at the German Schopenhauer-Society about parallels between Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Bukowski.

I posted now my original paper I used for holding this address. It's in German of course.
But I added an abstract in English at the start, so maybe it's still of interest for some ...

http://www.bukowski-gesellschaft.de...ld-at-the-Schopenhauer-Society-April-2006.pdf

 

[Olaf]

Brillant! There was always a strong link between all three of these people.

I read Nietzsche and Bukowski.

Great to finallly find a piece of writing on the connection between these powerful philosophers and a powerful poet.

Thanks for the link, roni.

 

[Short Bus]

Hey Roni
I read your absttract thank you for the English I found this interesting
- Out of all this, all three were consciously living the life of outsiders even More, which means all three developed a
Need for Loneliness (being alone), avoiding company.
I never thought about the need for lonliness as a tool.
Excellent observations
The only part I have trouble with and perhaps its semantic is that they were pessimists.
I always found optimism in the eternal recurrance thoughts -the use of humour and of course will in FN.
I also find CB very optimistic humourous and of course driven by will.
They may have held little hope for mankind but (for me) beleiving in Will makes its impossible to be a pessimist since anything is possible..again my observation may be more a semantic response than one well thought out.
I wish I read more German

 

[roni]

The only part I have trouble with [...] is that they were pessimists.

I always found optimism in the eternal recurrance thoughts -the use of humour and of course will in FN.

Their humour, of course, was another tool. (and this is no conflict with being pessimistic. A lot of great comedians were depressive people.)

But you're right in a way. One could have long discussions on the term "pessimistic" regarding Buk or Nietz.

Definitely Nietzsche himself would've denied to be pessimistic from the times of, say, 'Human - All Too Human' on, when he was starting to offend against Schopenhauers pessimism.

One could fill libraries on this turn-around of Nietzsche in that time around 1878/79. Thus it must always remain an imperfect attemt to refer to Nietzsche, especially in the context of a one-hour-address about three people, there's no room to discuss such a complex subject.

Still I think there remains something pessimistic in Nietzsches attitude even after his 'turnaround'.

 

[bright]

thank you roni, will have great joy reading it!


..Sokrates and Plato,
Kant and Shopenhauer, they are the most original funmakers of the universe.
The others are just chewing on them.
Or try to.
I have PudelMan`s:"The world as will and imagination" for 12 years now.
Never got beyond page 100, though i made 3 attempts.
This book scares me.
Really.
Too much truth at once, such density, it definitely lessens the common ground you are standing on with "the others".
And at such speed, that you have barely the time to adjust your feet.

greetings.
----------------
Licht wird alles was ich fasse
Kohle alles was ich lasse
Flamme bin ich, sicherlich.

 

[Short Bus]

Thanks Roni
I'm trying to wade through the German article but I'm not too optimistic.

 

[roni]

@Jimmy Snerp:
I'm thinking about translating at least the quotes in the paper, but could take me some time. (usually I added notes after the quotes for myself in brackets, where that quote came from, to be able to answer this, if asked during my address - so, maybe you can look them up in an English version of the books too.)

@bright:
No need to read the whole thing. Given you got the main-point of the idea already, go for: §§ 28-39 and §§ 56-60 of Volume ONE as well as chapters 31, (44, 45,) 46 [!] and 48-49 of Volume TWO. They kick ass.

Also have a look into his 'Parerga und Paralimomena' (meaning of the title: annotations and afterthoughts), esp. Vol 2. - These are easy and a lot of FUN to read.

Also, since you are German, go for the biography by one Volker Spierling. This guy has a good understanding of Schop and gives you a fine introduction into life and work.

 

[bright]

thank you roni, already have the Parerga kai Paralipomena but will have a look at this Spirrow-guy.
Have read the PsychoNovelBiographie by Irvin Yalom on him(Die Shopenhauerkur) though.
Strange.

PS:
The Parergas are great, i imagine having read that he deliberately made them " for the Plebs", so that his ideas could be understood by almost everyone.
- Another parallel to Hank?

..and do you remember, in the prologue to "the world as will and imagination", how he, Arthur Shopenhauer, suggests that, if you arent planing to read his book with full concentration, you should give it to your girlfriend so she could place it in her closet.
You know, so that you had something to read during your business.
Left me speechless.

It is also said that he once had a little, just a tiny bit syphilis, but then again, who hadnt these days...

 

[roni]

The Parergas are great, i imagine having read that he deliberately made them " for the Plebs", so that his ideas could be understood by almost everyone.

I wouldn't call the intended audience for his 'Parerga' "the plebs" and don't think Schopenhauer would either, but basically you're right:
they're easier, you don't need to be so much 'educated' and concentrate to understand, you can read it in bed or at the crabber, and you can have more laughs when reading this ones (there are two volumes, as are of 'The World as Will and Conception').

oh, and talking of the 'Parerga':

if anyone ever wondered what scene Bukowski was referring to in his poem 'a funny guy' in 'You get so alone' on p. 124:
it's in the second Volume of the 'Parerga', chapter XXX (that is 30), named 'Ueber Lerm und Geräusch' (translated: 'On loudness and sound').

how he, Arthur Shopenhauer, suggests that, if you arent planing to read his book with full concentration, you should give it to your girlfriend so she could place it in her closet.

yeah, he had a lot of statements like this. It was part of his 'arrogant' attitude. Some of his funniest moments are, when he becomes like this, or when attacking Hegel, etc.

I literally can see Bukowski reading passages like this, laughing, holding his belly, saying to himself: "now This guy knew how to use the words!" or something.

The editor of the most reliable Schopenhauer-edition (the 'Deathbed-edition', 'Ausgabe letzter Hand'), one Ludger Lütkehaus, who Really knows Schopenhauer, has called him once "den grässten Rechthaber der Philosophie", which means "the guy who's claiming the most, the He only knows". And this is true of Schop in a way. But you always can enjoy it with a laughing eye.

 

[stalwars]

I used to keep a copy of _Parerga_ next to my bed and read it nightly. It's a little more suitable for this than _World as Will_. Thanks for posting your essay; it's unfortunate, however, that I don't read German.