What makes Bukowski so unique? (2 Viewers)

Well heres two more cents to the trough.
For me (and thats all that counts) I think the style comes from his speech pattern and his sense of timing. Many poems seem to have that "gotcha" line at the end. The type of quip you you hear at a bar from the guy at the end stool who shouldn't be listening to your conversation. Buk seemed to like, relish these "Gotcha wise guy moments whether it was in school at work or even on the page.
Heck I'm convinced that Pulp was written poorly by design. I'm convinced it was Buks final "gotcha". See I can put out drivel and you will soak this stuff up.

For me (still all that matters) I find Buk gotcha moments and Zen Aha moments produce the same epiphany. Heck I never thought about that, like that, before.
 
Pointing out that most poetry is unreadable tripe and derivative bullshit? I don't think I'm alone in that outlook. If it's an ugly outlook, well, reality is ugly sometimes. Try not to let it get you down, kid.

Trying to define what it was that made Bukowski unique is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It is what it is, and no one else did, or can do, the same thing. That makes it unique.

But you are unique too, just like the rest of us. We are all very unique and special.




No, I'm not drunk, I'm at work. But if work isn't the one place where you should be drunk, I don't know what is.

Or something.

Too many late nights lately. Need sleep. Carry on.

Your words are ugly - this is nothing to do with poetry.

And I'm not your kid, Daddy!

----

Bukowski has such a down to earth feel
a tone at once close and yet harsh
wise and foolish and clear

----

i think a lot more people have STYLE
that Bukowski might ever concede
one staple mark of Bukowski
was that he always liked to disagree
at least in his writing-

a writer i know wrote this about bukowski
and many other well known folk,
it's a kind of mock response:

Charles Bukowski agrees in a rare moment?
It is a mixed blessing at best, to discover, after years of jaded, melancholic apathy, hedonistic sloth and opiate-driven escapism, that there are after all, many things of interest in this world from which one can derive lasting meaning and purpose.
 
Your words are ugly

There are no ugly words... just ugly people.

Bukowski has such a down to earth feel
a tone at once close and yet harsh
wise and foolish and clear

----

i think a lot more people have STYLE
that Bukowski might ever concede
one staple mark of Bukowski
was that he always liked to disagree
at least in his writing-
and blahblahblah
No offense, but the way you format your comments (as if they were poems[???]) smacks of pretense. When you're having a conversation in a pub do you find yourself suddenly breaking into prose?

But hey... at least you don't try to make it rhyme.
 
i like your post format
it's easy to read
it has good flow
anybody thinking you're pretending
to be anyone other than yourself
is being silly


and i ain't no poet
nor do i pretend to be
 
Didn't have the time to read all the posts but I am interested cause I will probably focus on this point in my scholar paper that I'm about to write about Buk, that is what do you find in Bukowski that you don't find at others? To me this is simple. A few years ago when a wino-pal of mine introduced Buk to me he told me "Dude, this guy makes OUR life interesting!!!" And indeed, Buk appealed to us because we felt a close bond between his literature and our own mortal existence, which was basically wino-ing at that time(and still is,in a way). In every Buk's story, there was a character, an event, or an absence of events that we really were experiencing anytime,anywhere.
So Buk wasn't our favorite writer, he was our damn favorite hero-buddy.
 
It would be silly to forget that Bukowski wrote with a bit of tradition behind him, from Walt Whitman e.e. cummings, as he says he was 'of them'.
 
I'd just to say that when I was a young, working class boy Bukowski seemed like he was writing for me. It was great to have someone writing how you felt or lived and many people who have no interest in literature or poetry can relate to him. My wife, who is 44 and grew up in Guatamala, and has a very different sensibilty than me just finished her first Bukowski book, "Post Office," she liked it which even surprised myself. She's now reading "South of No North" and is not interested in literature.

I'd say his biggest strength was his courage to be honest, to show himself in embarrassing or poor lights, and that kind of honesty is not plentiful in life. To be a young person and have your fill of the lies from parents, teachers, politicans, clergy to meet up with Bukowski can be a breathe of fresh air.
 
I agree with the sentiment, but you have to give him (I'm assuming 'he'; if 'he's' a girl, I want to know) points for a no-style style.

SD
 
This is a good thread, congratulations. But I don't guess anyone here's gonna have the answer to where Buk's style comes from, how could we presume to know that, when Bukowski doesn't know himself...read the books, the interviews, watch the videos...the 'simplicity' we all talk about is really just a directness of language, clearness in thought and structure, but his subject matter covers the same 'complex' issues that have always been covered by every writer: love, life, death, beauty, hope, rejection, and on and on.

In Ham on Rye, Buk is already observing the world "differently" than most as a toddler...under the dinner table, intrigued by the legs of the table, legs of the people, the quality of the sunlight on the carpet, the voices...we've all had those kind of experiences, but not too many of us realize that there's not much more to life than this...this may be all there is, it may not be so grand, it may be full of unimagineable cruelty and hate, and the greatest moment of your life may be sitting under that table watching dust particles float in the light.

It is said there are only really three (interesting) themes in writing: man against man, man against nature and man against himself. If you want to enjoy Buk's 'simplicity' sit down and type 10 or 20 or 100 of his poems verbatim...you will come to see how differently he thinks than you do and realize that his style comes from the same place your style (or lack of style :-) ) comes from. He sees and describes the 'epic' struggles of life in the everyday...and that's right where most of us experience it...so we relate. Hemmingway, for example, will describe these exact same struggles in grand settings like battlefields and exotic foreign countries, in immense struggles against giant fish in vast oceans, etc...but most of us have seen/experienced more life and death in a spider web than on a safari...and Buk reminds us of this constantly.

My 2 cents worth...thanks for the forum...Bobby D
 
being prolific,like picasso
but,in the word
could qualify as a 'gift from god'
but also there ia a saying
'god helps those whom help themselves'
so there is his discipline

answer: 24 post later
BOTH
 
Thoughts and Ruminations

Bukowski was of no school of writing...if anything...he was the firts 'well known writer' (in hindsight) to make, 'everyday-writing' stand on its feet.

My own view is that Henry Miller, in Tropic of Cancer, was the one mostly likely to have made "everyday writing" truly stand alone?and he did this at least 30 years ahead of Bukowski; and this famous autobiographical novel could not be legally published in the US until 1961, though other influential works, such as excerpts from Black Spring, were able to get past the censors before then.

Hemingway, Miller, and Bukowski showed the atomic power the English language could have when released from the shackles of stultifying literary forms and the writing conventions in vogue at that time. Even though Bukowski never took to, nor appreciated, Miller's work, I feel that Miller indirectly paved the way for the acceptance of Bukowski's freedom of language from the legal standpoint, when potential consorship became a non-issue in the 1960s. (Such as using the "F" word and "C" word.) While Miller took language beyond its puritanical, tight-assed restrictions on sexual content, Bukowski further pushed the boundaries of language and imagery in such graphic stories as "The Fiend" and "The Murder of Ramon Vasquez." (The latter story is perhaps the darkest I've ever read, because Bukowski goes so far into the mind and brutality of the murderers.) So I give the nod to both of them, but with Miller paving the way.

But even before Miller, Hemingway was stripping language down to the bedrock and dumping the piling up of adjective upon adjective that had also been diluting the power of language.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter anymore now that society has been irrevocably changed, or has caught up, but I still find it an interesting situation to think about; Bukowski came along after Miller had pushed the boundaries of language to the point where anything goes. And Bukowski went. And how.

Here are three giants who forever changed the way writers wrote and spoke, and they made the reader feel capable of perhaps creating too. That was a great gift, for there was no longer the huge divide between the writer and his audience. Instead, rather than to contrive their stories through artifical literary contrivances, the three of them demystified language through directness and simplicity, and made it accessible to all. Just my take on it.

Poptop
 
Bukfan you are wrong. There is no such thing as the common man. There is no such thing as average. We are all different. In the entire universe I bet there is only one of you. You are unique and nobody can ever make another of you. Buks brilliance is the he understood this very well and he had life experience to back it up.:)

In other words, "There is no average, there is only different"
 
When I say "the common man", I am of course generalizing. You know what I mean, The "ordinary" man as opposed to the "academics". It goes without saying that everybody is unique. - Even me :)

Buk quote:
"I'm a very common simple man. I do have genius, but with a very low common denominator. I'm simple, I'm not profound. My genius stems from an interest in whores, working men, streetcar drivers - lonely beaten-down people. And those are the people I'd like to see reading my stuff, and I don't want to see too many learned comments, too much criticism, or too much praise get between me and them"

from "Sunlight here I am", page 166.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Buk will always bounce back and forth; common but they goes out of his way to prove he is not common; that is unless you believe genius, whores, working men, streetcar drivers - lonely beaten-down people are common, which they are not.

If anything the "academics" as you put it are common, as they follow somewhat the same path and have many common threads between them and often think alike, saving their criticism for those who are not in their common club, such as the whores, working men, streetcar drivers and lonely beaten down people.

Just my observation.

And one more thing - ordinary man? Nothing ordinary about anybody; some are a little more boring than others, but nothing ordinary; I can find interest in anybody.
 
In Up To His Ears

....

Buk quote:
"I'm a very common simple man. I do have genius, but with a very low common denominator. I'm simple, I'm not profound. My genius stems from an interest in whores, working men, streetcar drivers - lonely beaten-down people. And those are the people I'd like to see reading my stuff, and I don't want to see too many learned comments, too much criticism, or too much praise get between me and them"

from "Sunlight here I am", page 166.

Bukfan, thanks for posting this revealing quote, had not come across it before. Here's the man himself observing himself better than anyone 'learned' could ever possibly do, imo, and why such an outside analysis from a critic can sometimes be injurious and superfluous to those readers who may not have already made up their minds about this Bukowski fellow.

As I've stuck my neck out to mention before, sometimes the scholarly discourse on a man, beyond a certain point, can end up coming between the reader and what's read, and it's the rare biographer whose spirit is as broad and sympathetic as the man or woman he/she is writing about. (But it's possible.)

Inadvertently such academic chronographers end up making the subject of their criticisms seem less worthy of being read, rather than more, and they don't even realize it at the time they are doing it: their appreciation of their subject is full of secret doubts and reservations, and the biographer appears unable to integrate the subject's genius and his short-comings in a fully integrated manner, instead of either/or. Without going into specific instances for now, I've seen this in the clubhouse on a number of occasions, and there appears to be no cure for it except for one to read more good biographies and get past the reservations about being fooled, deceived or taken advantage of by the subject under analysis. (I'm not worried myself about being fooled, if the lie says something true about life.)

It's not that the subject is free of interesting faults"”of course not"”and the faults and short-comings are what help to unfurl the subject's genius. But the problem is in assessing what the true faults are.

In Bukowski's case, some of his themes related to outward male dominance"”such is in some of the stories in South Of No North"”could be viewed as being a short-sighted, limited or immature view of female sexuality and fickleness, at least on the surface, though there can also be truth to it! Nevertheless, these themes have called out some of Bukowski's detractors, and it's one reason why he has been rejected as a serious writer by those who are too impatient or short-sighted to hang in there until they come across the depth of feeling and insight in so many of his great poems. I consider "Ignus Fatuus," off the CD At Terror Street and Agony Way, to be one of the great poems, on what real death is, in the English language. But I believe that most academics would never admit to it being a great poem if they had known who wrote it before reading it themselves. That's how the mind screens out threats to itself: by comparing something new to their standard frame of reference and not being able to take it in.

The good news is that there should always be room in the universities for contemporary literature, no matter how bad it sometimes is, because it's a reflection of life now and not 200 years ago. If the academic boundaries aren't stretched by the courageous academics or biographers, preferably with a truly intigrated understanding of the person they are writting about, some students might never be exposed to the good stuff: the good man Bukowski, and a few others.

Written just for the hell of it.

Poptop
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The simplicity of his writing is what he mastered. That is not a simple procedure it takes an immense control and self discipline.He learned from other writers, musiciens, painters by comparing effectiveness and precision. He was a worker who fulfilled a dream. He was working to write. He made his dream become his work. He finally made money at it. He played his life like he bet on the horses when he walked out of his last job as an employee and he won. He was starting to get published with more seriousness. He said it himself, he finally got lucky. (A room of one's own, Virginia Wolfe) has an affinity with Buk's desire... verbalized in a very different style but still...
 
The great thing about Bukowski was there was no bullshit in his writing. He put it down, and had a natural talent for making it sound simple while still having it mean something. The other thing about him is that a lot of his stuff was shit. And even better, he knew it. He even admitted one time that a lot of his stuff is crap, but it's still way better than a lot of the flowery poems that are being published. If I had to break it down, I would say about 30% of his stuff was crap, 40% was really good, and 30% was fantastic. I especially enjoy "Night Torn Mad with Footsteps." That's probably the best collection of his poems, not to mention that it has my favorite Bukowski poem of all time, "A song with no name."
 
I don't think I will say anything very original, but here it goes...

1) The nakedness of his prose. He knew that there is a quiet beauty in simple sentences and simple words. Simple and austere, not simplistic.

2) The vulnerability of his writings about himself. Most humans spend their lives keeping up appearances and deceiving themselves about themselves. It takes someone with great strength of character to introspect with honesty and write down the findings for the world to read.

3) The deviance of the subjects in his books. Despite what many may think, Bukowski did not write about common things. He wrote about experiences and people that the average man either avoids deliberately or simply never encounters. Wanton sex, extreme drunkeness, skid row, flophouses--these things are not common for most people. Yet they are things about which most of us are curious, if only because they are mysterious to us.

4) This is probably more personal than the other reasons, but I think Bukowski relates to a certain type of human that few other authors relate to quite as well. Using the Myer-Briggs personality theory, that type of person is an INTJ: Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Judging. The type of person I have in mind is also pessimistic, but not cruel, and he has an overall tragic view of mankind and the world. He is probably also an atheist in the general sense of the term, lack of belief in gods.
 
His style is simple, it is him reflecting .The ideas are complexed but feel simple because completely bare, purified, filtered with nothing left but the essential. His intention is pure. To me reading him feels like he is talking to me with no bullshit. Bukowski is so brutally honest and human that even if when is describing something grotesque, it's not the grotesque that stick it is his honesty.

I think his soul is gentle, hiding under a nasty attitude. An attitude that he developped to survive his chilhood bruises, dealing with the drunks, the pretentious, the dumbs and the establishment that he hated.

He does not make up stories of people he does not know, it is about what he lives through and deals with from day to day. He is glorifying human nature, and human nature is what it is with its greatness and its weaknesses.

As if the simple truth bled by osmose through his soul.

Hey! this is hard to express, I am a painter
 
Yeah Black Swan - Bukowski does not make up stories of people he does not know, it is about what he lives through and deals with from day to day.

If you read the Sounes biography, you will see where Bukowski once interviewed a cannibal brought over from Africa who just ate his own wife, he was the coach of a baseball team that, for a short time, starred Jesus Christ and he once slept with a woman who had made love with every kind of creature on earth. She gave birth to a new species.

The list of fantastic, surreal stories (and poems) is as long as my arm.
Also... see point 3 (above) by southerngentleman.

And I think when you except human nature with all its beauty and all its ugliness, by definition, you do not glorify it. You simply deal with it. And that could mean soaring high or bloody railing, but you just deal with it.

I know, I know, the painter disclaimer probably excludes the option of pointing out that you what?.... have not read many Bukowski stories but really like the ones you have read?

Neat.
 
Hi Roc

I am truly happy to hear from you, I appreciate your comments. I have read a lot of Bukowski. I am attaching a picture of my collection . I have learned something precious from Buk, and that is to look into my day to day life for inspiration. He has taught me to create images from my life experience.
Some of it strangely ressembles his. As you said you end up dealing with what you got. Ferron wrote "If it is snowing in Brooklyn, if you say it is snowing in Brooklyn, well if it is snowing in Brooklyn I'd say snow is what we got..."
As long as I am living I paint. Pretty people, ugly people, dreams, fears,
forgiveness. That what I have learned from Buk's writing. To use my life.

I remember that story where he moves in with a woman with the zoo and she dies giving birth to some creature part human, part tiger, snake .... good story a little like Eraser Head supposedly his favorite movie.

Collection0001.jpg
 
I have learned something precious from Buk, and that is to look into my day to day life for inspiration. He has taught me to create images from my life experience.
Some of it strangely ressembles his.

Are you showing your paintings anywhere?
Somewhat Buk inspired art sounds interesting.
Online I mean. I'd love a trip to Canada but... $$$:(

Maybe that's another idea for a book. Painting inspired by Bukowski - with the artists taking that whereever that leads them.

PS - Forgive my ignorance - who's Ferron?
 
I have a small shop where I restore antique furniture, that is where I show and sell my art.
You gave me an idea for a new thread. Paintings and sculptures inspired by Bukowski. I posted it but i can't get to open a bigger picture. Thanks.
 
cirerita - dug up this old thread and would like to add to it though it's perhaps far past what you're currently seeking. In reading Bukowski, he unleashes the typewriter like a biblical elder at the tyrannical father, the boils and scars, the awkward teen yearnings, the feelings of being a misfit, the solitude, the drunkenness, the whores, the broken relationships, the loss of loved ones, the beatings, the drudgery of work, insomnia, aches and pains, stupidity, phonies, clogged toilets and ignored landlords. And what makes him unique is that through the shit-storm of it all, he makes you laugh. I love this fucker, wish I knew him when he was alive.
 
Immidiately after WWII was not good climate in literature to publish Bukowski.

But when the beatnicks show up and hippy-movement and r'n'r was all
around in full strength ,then it became possible to publish him.

And Buk became famous at the age of 50+ , with stories from his
life originaly happened in 1940's , after decades of heavy drinking and
after he survived almost phatal ulcer bleeding in 1955.
Very UNIQUE case in literature and in life also, you must admit.
 
But of course he was published post WWII and pre-beatniks or hippies, and those early publications are what went a long way toward changing the voice of American poetry. Just look at some of the magazines from the era, where Bukowski's work sticks out like a sore thumb.

And his near "phatal" bleeding ulcer was in 1954. That has been established through bills from the hospital and letters of the time. So yes, he started writing in greater volume at the same time the beatnik era was born, but it was his own personal experiences that brought that on, not any literary movement.

It's not an altogether inaccurate observation, but I think it's mistaken, as he became published more widely when he began to take his writing more seriously (1954). That the beatniks came in around that time is coincidence.

Of course he was published in beat and hippie rags, as well as traditional lit mags. And the "hippie" Los Angeles weeklies made him famous (in Los Angeles), but not until the hippie era was burning out.
 
In "Born into this" John Martin when they asked him how he
decided to publish Bukowski answered that he felt that in 1970's
will be audience for Buk.

Buk's style (practicly) is the same in 1944 and 1970 and in 1990 but public
was not ready to accept him in 1940's.

Also, unique about Buk are the reasons why he wrote:imagine
lonely, poor drunk with face full of scars, in small rented dirty flat,
what he can do on saturday and sunday nights?Watch TV?

Or to write poetry , where he can "scream a little bit" to
"laugh to life" and to "save his ass from the street" and where
he can "analyse what he done right or wrong" in his life.
Very UNIQUE reasons for writing.
 
It's all wrong, mind you, but I can't argue with it.

It is ok with me but I realy love to see quotations of good old Buk.

Interpretations never can be good as the real (original) thing.


For example , in "Hollywood" Buk wrote that despite all weird and
crazy things he done he always stayed normal.
Maybe not quite UNIQUE but rare and for all respect.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top