“confessions of a man insane enough to live with beasts” (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tylersjaw
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About 4 years (2013) ago I started working on a similar thing, realizing that a big lot of his later (developed) motifs, stories, anecdotes had been put down here for the first time. I didn't go through though.
I'm a bit lazy tonight to translate anything of it into English, but maybe someone else of the German kids around here may.
So, for what it's worth, this is a sentence copied from my notes back then to manifest the importance of this piece of writing:
"Die Absätze der 'Confessions' springen wild zwischen Jugenderinnerungen, seiner Zeit mit Jane, seiner Magenblutung, seiner Ehe mit Barbara Frye und anderen Anekdoten herum. Es ist gewissermaßen eine rudimentäre Materialsammlung, aus der er sich später immer wieder bedienen würde. In den Romanen 'Ham On Rye' ('Das Schlimmste kommt noch') und 'Factotum' finden wir Motive daraus verarbeitet, komplette Short-Stories (z.B. 'Kid Stardust im Schlachthof' / 'Kid Stardust On The Porterhouse') wurden auf Basis dieses Prosafragments verfasst. Die ungaren 'Confessions' wurden bisher viel zu wenig beachtet, weil übersehen wurde, wie oft Bukowski sich in seinen 'reiferen' Werken an diesem Fundus bediente."
Pogue Mahone
Officials say drugs may have played a part
Maybe you know this or maybe you don't, but from an historical perspective this was Bukowski's first "book" of fiction. Not to say he didn't write many short stories prior to this, but most were never published. Doug Blazek was probably the most responsible for getting him to go back to it.
What smug arrogant bullshit. I still submit to the New Yorker, and of course they reject all my stuff; but this effete, erudite, over-educated pose they take really is too much sometimes. From the final paragraph of the above link:
And this is the risk that Bukowski never takes. Even at his most unheroic, he is the hero of his stories and poems, always demanding the reader’s covert approval. That is why he is so easy to love, especially for novice readers with little experience of the genuine challenges of poetry; and why, for more demanding readers, he remains so hard to admire.
mjp
Founding member
Welcome novice readers!
Well, you know, as with all of these things, you have to consider the source. Harvard man Adam Kirsch, the writer of The New Yorker piece linked here (and senior editor of The New Republic while we're at it), looks like someone who would probably dissolve into a salty pool of prom-night-rejection tears if you raised your voice in a conversation with him. So really, being smarter than you is all he's got. Do you want to take that away from him? And leave him with what?
Whatever you do, don't seek out any of his unintentionally hilarious, VERY SERIOUS, dense, willfully stupid and utterly joyless poetry. I mean, just don't do it. I warned you.
Then again, you wouldn't understand any of it anyway, being novices and all. So I guess there's no harm in looking.
Adam Kirsch, writer for The New Yorker and senior editor of The New Republic, when you Google yourself late one night and find this thread, welcome friend. We've been waiting for you to arrive and lead us to the promised land of real poetry and make of us "demanding readers." God bless you, my fragile and sensitive brother. God bless you.
Well, you know, as with all of these things, you have to consider the source. Harvard man Adam Kirsch, the writer of The New Yorker piece linked here (and senior editor of The New Republic while we're at it), looks like someone who would probably dissolve into a salty pool of prom-night-rejection tears if you raised your voice in a conversation with him. So really, being smarter than you is all he's got. Do you want to take that away from him? And leave him with what?
Whatever you do, don't seek out any of his unintentionally hilarious, VERY SERIOUS, dense, willfully stupid and utterly joyless poetry. I mean, just don't do it. I warned you.
Then again, you wouldn't understand any of it anyway, being novices and all. So I guess there's no harm in looking.
Adam Kirsch, writer for The New Yorker and senior editor of The New Republic, when you Google yourself late one night and find this thread, welcome friend. We've been waiting for you to arrive and lead us to the promised land of real poetry and make of us "demanding readers." God bless you, my fragile and sensitive brother. God bless you.
I find the last line, where he talks about “novice readers”, to be offensive and patronising. It reminds me of the way colonialist academics in my country would talk about the art and culture of "primitive" tribes. As for the phrase “genuine challenges of poetry”. Please!
I read the whole article, and there were some interesting parts; however, the last paragraph, the one that was quoted above, mainly, doesn't make sense. It's just a long stream of overwrought obfuscated gibberish.
Bukowski, truly, more than most, didn't fit into the world, and because, ultimately, no one, really, fits into this world, including the middle classes, he has something to say to everyone, even, it would seem, Mr Kirsch.
I always thought that the young had more moral integrity than the adults, so maybe it's the adults who need to grow up.
That guy may well have just said that anyone who reads Bukowski is an idiot, because they’ve not read enough Ezra Pound.
I read the whole article, and there were some interesting parts; however, the last paragraph, the one that was quoted above, mainly, doesn't make sense. It's just a long stream of overwrought obfuscated gibberish.
Bukowski, truly, more than most, didn't fit into the world, and because, ultimately, no one, really, fits into this world, including the middle classes, he has something to say to everyone, even, it would seem, Mr Kirsch.
Bukowski’s fans realize that “some people,” like E. E. Cummings’s “mostpeople,” or J. D. Salinger’s hated “phonies,” are never us, always them—those not perceptive enough to understand our merit, or our favorite author’s. This is a typically adolescent emotion, and it is no coincidence that all three of these writers exert a special power over teen-agers.
I always thought that the young had more moral integrity than the adults, so maybe it's the adults who need to grow up.
That guy may well have just said that anyone who reads Bukowski is an idiot, because they’ve not read enough Ezra Pound.
what does "demanding challenges of poetry" even mean?
the harder to read and enjoy the better it is?
it's interesting, cause isn't that what bukowski was rejecting and changing with his stuff? the intellectual snobbishness?
simplicity in great art is rare and really tough to pull off.
if this guy ever does find this thread hopefully he'll be able to lower himself and discuss it with us "undemanding readers"
the harder to read and enjoy the better it is?
it's interesting, cause isn't that what bukowski was rejecting and changing with his stuff? the intellectual snobbishness?
simplicity in great art is rare and really tough to pull off.
if this guy ever does find this thread hopefully he'll be able to lower himself and discuss it with us "undemanding readers"
"An intellectual is a man who says a simple thing in a difficult way; an artist is a man who says a difficult thing in a simple way." ― Charles Bukowski Notes of a Dirty Old Man (1969)
Possibly something such as the below.
http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/read-ezra-pounds-list-of-23-donts-for-writing-poetry-1913.html
The full essay is here.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69409/a-retrospect-and-a-few-donts
Sometimes I'll grab a copy of the New Yorker just to see the poems, who's being printed, what do they have that I am lacking? (I don't know why it's so important for me to slip one past them -- year in, year out -- it's a grudge match at this point). Occasionally they'll surprise me and print something good that sticks to my ribs just right. After ignoring MJP's warning, I went and read some of Adam Kirsch's poems, nothing, they leave no trace -- like an evaporated snow-cone with no syrup -- nothing left but the paper.
You should change the title of this thread to Adam Kirsch, Poet. Someday he may be horrified to find the first thing in a google search of his name will be The Bukowski Forum.
You should change the title of this thread to Adam Kirsch, Poet. Someday he may be horrified to find the first thing in a google search of his name will be The Bukowski Forum.
mjp
Founding member
Might as well, since the New Yorker link had absolutely nothing to do with confessions of a man insane enough to live with beasts.
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