Fake Bukowski poems (1 Viewer)

Something I always wondered about. Have there been any instances of fake Bukowski poems being published? During Buk's lifetime the man himself would have been able to spot fakes but after his death do you think chapbook publishers and fanzine editors ever published fake poems - either knowingly or unknowingly? Buk's name on the cover would have helped with sales.

Typing out a published poem with a few words changed I am sure happens every so often but any cases of outright fakes gets published as authentic?

Any thoughts?
 
It wasn't like there was a shortage of poems left to publish after his death, so I don't see the need to fake any. And it would be difficult to fake a manuscript to sell, if that's where you're headed. There are too many out there, and they all bear many distinctive elements.

Didn't we see a fake Bukowski manuscript on eBay in the past year or so?

Anyway, you might be able to con someone, but it would be difficult to slip by this crowd.

Maybe that would be a good contest, best fake Bukowski manuscript...
 
You're not a faker, are you? ;)

Ha! No, but after I posted I realised it might look a bit odd. I know about fakes in art which are harder - you have the physical thing - the paint and canvas or paper etc. Literary fakes are a bit easier because you can cut out the original document. Imagine all the original manuscripts that must have been pilfered from magazine files after publication - doesn't mean the published poems are fake just because the original manuscript has gone missing.

No, I'm a Buk fan (though I think some stuff is better than other stuff) so I am against polluting his output with fakes.
 
Plus, after he got together with Martin, didn't he send a copy of everthing to him to use as he saw fit? If so, anything past that point could be cross referenced. I supposed that an early, unknown manuscript could be found some day (to the whore who took my poems), but I would think that they would have a very, very hard time fooling the folks here if they were not legit. If it showed up on ebay and looked wrong, it would be noticed.

I think that mjp was right when he mentioned a fake poem ms on ebay. I seem to remember someone who typed up a poem and then said that he "found this poem". It was very clear to us that there was nothign right about it and that someone other than Buk just typed up a poem. It would be small things like quality and age of paper as well as make of typewriter and wear to some keys, which would be hard to duplicate. IT would be very tough to forge one and fool this bunch.


Bill
 
I once saw a chapbook of fake Bukowski poems. Forget the title, where I saw it, what the press name was, etc. I'll mull it over and see if I can come up with some details. But it has happened at least once.
 
Plus, after he got together with Martin, didn't he send a copy of everthing to him to use as he saw fit? If so, anything past that point could be cross referenced. I supposed that an early, unknown manuscript could be found some day (to the whore who took my poems), but I would think that they would have a very, very hard time fooling the folks here if they were not legit. If it showed up on ebay and looked wrong, it would be noticed.
Good point. Almost everything post-66 would have a carbon or Xerox in the hands of Linda B or Martin. Good place to check and compare.

It's kind of interesting to think about a profile of a faker. They are usually men with great technical skill but deeply frustrated - failed writers etc. They want to get revenge on the experts who dismiss their own work. They don't get any recognition for their work so they pour time and energy into cooking up a fake. There is great skill in it but I don't think you'll find one top-rank writer or artist who ever spent more than a day faking. I mean, why seek acclaim for a fake (which you can never acknowledge) when you get acclaim for a genuine work in your own name?

That's a genuine faker. Some guy who gets a first edition and forges a signature is just a con man.

I think real experts (there's a few on this board) would be able to spot a Buk fake. Something just doesn't quite ring true about one, even though there might not be any one giveaway sign.
 
Speaking of literary fraud, it's been rumored and whispered in literary circles for some time now that Tess Gallagher might've had a hand in crafting some of the posthumous Raymond Carver stories.
 
It's kind of interesting to think about a profile of a faker.
There is a great book about just such a guy, it's called, The Poet and the Murderer: A True Story of Literary Crime and the Art of Forgery (I think it was recommended in the forum here, just can't remember by who).

The guy's name was Mark Hofmann, and he stared off making fake Emily Dickinson manuscripts, then graduated to fake Mormon documents and squeezed a lot of dough out of them. They wanted to suppress these "documents" that contained embarrassing details on the sham basis of their multi-billion dollar religion.

Anyway, this guy created a ton of fake documents aside from Dickinson and Mormon stuff. And he was (and is) hardly the only one doing it.

After you read this book you will doubt the authenticity of just about every historical document on the face of the earth.
 
Hi,
It was me that recommended it and I think that Rekrab mentioned it to me. It is worth the read. A great, great book and HB copies can be bought for a couple bucks...

Hoffman would go into libraries armes with a razor and would remove the blank pages from the books. It was this paper that he used to forge. He also used old paper that he burned and made into ink so that everything looked right and would carbon date correctly.

Still, he was insane and killed two people with bombs (to try to cover up his forgery crimes), which is why he is in prison...


Bill
 
Maybe this post is way too off-topic, since we're not in the 'all things NOT bukowski' section, but it may be quite interesting:

in the mid 80s, there was a BIG hype in Germany, because the diaries of Hitler had been found. The magazine, that published this in the first place ('Stern') is usually reliable, and they DID double-check it. They even PUBLISHED parts of these diaries. But (as you might have guessed) they were ALL FAKE! When this came out, it was a big scandal of course. The guy who faked them went to jail, but nevertheless got rich, writing his memoires...
 
And next they'll be making a movie about how he did it (and he'll be the consultant on the movie) and he'll make a fortune...:D
 
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While most fakers may be failed or frustrated artists, bitter losers, etc., I imagine there may be a few who do it just for the sheer technical challenge, as an intellectual game. "Can I pull this off?" I can see someone doing it just because it's there, like climbing Everest.

Also, if they were very smart, very good at it, the fake may never be detected, and we won't know that they did it just for fun, not out of hate or for the money.

That's an interesting rumor about Tess Gallagher and Ray Carver's posthumous stories.
 

LOL - I did'nt know that! - I looked him up in Wkipedia (Konrad Kujau):

"On his release from prison after 3 years Kujau became something of a minor celebrity appearing on TV as an "forgery expert", and set up a business selling "genuine Kujau fakes" in the style of various major artists. He stood for election as Mayor of Stuttgart in 1996, receiving over 900 votes."

Who said crime don't pay? :D
 
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Hehe, yes, and the movie is pretty cool. Has been quite some time til I've watched it, but I remember it being truly funny.
 
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Having mulled it over a bit, the fake Bukowski chapbook that I vaguely recall was almost a joke, like a parody. Supposed to be funny and it really wasn't. I can't remember who did it, or what the title was, but I seem to remember something about washtubs, puking in rusty washtubs. Does this ring a bell with any of you? It was in the -- perhaps -- 1980s or early 90s.
 

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