Was Bukowski A Genius? (2 Viewers)

Genius? I am sure he would laugh his ass off at that. From what my puny little mind can work out, he would hate the fact that we would consider him a genius...

I don't know why he did what he did with word. I just know I can identify with it and it also gives me great reassurance to know I am not alone. This world is too full of fucks who want something to latch onto and call brilliant (like the whole of the punk movement, this is my insight and no-one elses etc) or something that makes their otherwise dull lives seem interesting by observing the obvious brilliance of a setting sun or a cool ocean breeze on a warm day sipping rioja... Ooops I digress! erm, yeah that's it... Buk to me is like a wise friend who doesn't dress for the occasion. Someone to keep me sane. Someone who makes sense. He was like the common sense writer for me. No bullshit and little fabrication in that there are no real fantastical elements just honest evaluations unfiltered. That's the best part, he doesn't give a fuck who reads him, or rather he never give a fuck so why should we? I wish I knew, I am turning all of my friends onto Bukowski because I feel he is the SINGLE most relevant author for me personally (and maybe only me) that I have ever read. Whilst I do enjoy reading the windy paths of Twain and the beautifully blurted lines of the 'greats', It's Bukowski who makes sense and that's all the matters.

Fuck Genius, Genius is a word for the universities. Bollocks to that. He rocks!!! That's all...

I can swear now, see!!! :)
 
Sharon Stone says that she has an IQ of 154 which makes her a Genius;
Madonna reportedly has a 140 IQ which puts her on the border of Genius;
Andy Warhol was estimated to have an IQ of 86...

Genius is overrated.

Bill
 
Had a Geometry teacher in High School who use to tell stories about different things like solving everyday problems and some tough problems. After he finished his stories he would apply them to the geometric therom we were studying that day. The point being, everyone thinks genius is of math and science, but words tie it all together and makes the thinking function.
When Bukowski observes his cat being taunted by a mockingbird and later catching the mockingbird, he creates very broad ideas and pictures in our minds. Not the same ideas for each reader, although some obvious thoughts, but there is real genius in the words he put together.

And he didn't lay on his back on a scaffling with paint dripping in his eyes. So we are right to see that he was a genius.
 
Also, these are estimated IQ scores. I'm not sure they are certified. It seems to me that those that know that they have talent and do not need to prove anythign to anyone could care less about their IQ. For someone like Dr. Stephen Hawking it is clear. He does not need to prove anything to anyone as his history speaks for itself. Then you get someone like Sharon Stone's IQ is brought up SO often that she really should just go ahead and get it tattooed on her forehead. She has something to prove.

Buk could have had a 90 IQ and he would still have had a way with the words that others envy.

I'll take art over an IQ score any day.

Bill
 
Lester Young, visiting a tomb of the unknown soldier in Europe was said to have commented "1914 - 1918... what a tragedy to have died so young."
Young could be justifiably termed a musical genius.
And George Bush is supposed to have a high IQ too.
So what does it all tell you about those tests?
Yeah, give me art and functional intelligence any day.
 
In many of his stories -- one that immediately comes to mind is the delightful The Day We Talked About James Thurber -- Bukowski often referred to himself as "out of talent" and drew sharp and unkind, self loathing comparisons between his own writing and the prose of writers he admired.
 
YES! YES! YES! His words have really helped me through some shitty times in my life, I'm a crazy SOB and his words help me realize that I'm not alone.
 
Genius? Yes and no. Yes, because he created some amazing, unique, great writing that no else could have. No, because to be a genius you have to hit the target more often. Half of the art is editing - not just revising but judging what is good. CB let out too much poor stuff. Handing stuff to your editor is a cop out. He needed one but even so... he could have scrapped more before it left his room. So, "inconsistent and flawed genius" for me.
 
Genius? Yes and no. Yes, because he created some amazing, unique, great writing that no else could have. No, because to be a genius you have to hit the target more often. Half of the art is editing - not just revising but judging what is good. CB let out too much poor stuff. Handing stuff to your editor is a cop out. He needed one but even so... he could have scrapped more before it left his room. So, "inconsistent and flawed genius" for me.

I'd have to disagree here...Genius does not equal Perfectionist. If you hit the target sqaurely, even once, you made it.

And...Editing is art!?
 
I'd have to disagree here...Genius does not equal Perfectionist. If you hit the target sqaurely, even once, you made it.

And...Editing is art!?

What an amazingly ridiculous question. All one has to do is study the current conflict around Raymond Carver's work and Gordon Lish's heavy editing of same to understand the importance and relevance of the editorial process. Anyone who asks if editing is art understands jack about writing.
 
What an amazingly ridiculous question. All one has to do is study the current conflict around Raymond Carver's work and Gordon Lish's heavy editing of same to understand the importance and relevance of the editorial process. Anyone who asks if editing is art understands jack about writing.

Relevant - Yes
Important - Yes
Art -No (especially in the context of a discussion about the "genius" of the writer)
 
Editing is indeed an art, whether you care to realize that fact or not. Edmund Wilson and Matthew Bruccoli are spinning in their graves as we speak.
 
gen·ius [jeen-yuhs] -noun, plural gen·ius·es
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2. a person having such capacity.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
4. natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6. the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7. either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8. a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics

OK. So according to Dictionary.com, Buk qualifies as a genius in entries 1, 2, 4, 5, but only if you see the genius. It is subjective. This thread is a bit like arguing that the Grateful Dead was the best band that there EVER was. Impossible to quantify and subject to opinion. Certainly they are not the BEST band that ever was if you love only jazz. Plus this assumes that the person making the statement has heard and judged every band that there ever was. I have heard that Madonna is a musical genius, but only if you get her art. I do not.

In the case of Buk as a genius (IQ over 140), that is impossible to say, but I would have to take a guess and say that he was not. Still, it does not matter, really. I'd rather read him than Dr Stephen Hawking or Marilyn Vos Savant...

Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Editing is indeed an art, whether you care to realize that fact or not. Edmund Wilson and Matthew Bruccoli are spinning in their graves as we speak.

I like a lot of Bukowski's work; that's why I'm on this forum.

Originally I dropped a lot of names too...but I've editted them out.
 
I believe they were, respectively, the leader of the United States and the leader of Italy at the outbreak of World War I.
 
Well, maybe not, I don't know. But just a little Forum (or internet interaction in general) 101 --

If A says, "And...Editing is art!?"

And B responds, "What an amazingly ridiculous question."

A certain natural progression then follows and ends up with everyone feeling screwed and unhappy.

A and B would seem to disagree, but since we aren't all sitting in a room together, they tend to disagree in much different ways than they might with actual people.

If you think saying something to the guy in the next car at the gas station might get you punched in the nose, you usually won't say it. But if there's no possibility of that guy punching me in the nose, why not say whatever you want to?

You already knew all that, but I have a certain quota of words I have to type here in order to remain officially classified as "without life."
 
That last post was genius and anyone who disagrees is wrong and more than a little ridiculous.

Now... who was the most (scientifically) beautiful woman of all time and what is the one true religion?
 
Look, guys, I was simply in an irritable mood from, oddly enough, dealing with editors all day and I probably shouldn't have snapped at the poster the way I did. Yes, Mark, I know the natural progression you speak of but it damn well slipped my mind. For that I apologize. I'm still not conditioned away from my six-year experience at the Craigs List writing and literature: a knee-jerk reaction that requires a kick in response. But I don't need to do that here. There are moderators, unlike at Craig's List. I have to remember that.

In my current frame of mind, Cynthia Ozick rules the world and the one true faith is the futures market (buy rice now!).
 
Halle Berry and Buddhism.
Milla Jovovich and The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Bea Arthur and Scientology.

I'm glad we agree! :)
 
...Cynthia Ozick rules the world...

cynthiaozick.jpg


Yep... definitely a hottie. And she even looks a little like Bea Arthur.
 
Who the heck is Mark?
Michael, I meant to say. See? I told you had scrambled brains today.

Chronic, I'm reviewing Ozick's new novel about writers and it's brilliant. I don't use that word loosely. But, yeah, the jacket photo of her is a bit hard to take --- man, she makes up for it in verse, though.
 
genius

it's well known
its been seen countless times before
but its sooo true
and such simple genius
that i just can't resist

bukowski's ability
to voice profound
in simple english
never better
 
well i guess for me
genius equates with STYLE

witness:

Style is the answer to everything.
Fresh way to approach a dull or dangerous day.
To do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without style.
To do a dangerous thing with style, is what I call art.
Bullfighting can be an art.
Boxing can be an art.
Loving can be an art.
Opening a can of sardines can be an art.
Not many have style.
Not many can keep style.
I have seen dogs with more style than men.
Although not many dogs have style.
Cats have it with abundance.

When Hemingway put his brains to the wall with a shotgun, that was style.
For sometimes people give you style.
Joan of Arc had style.
John the Baptist.
Jesus.
Socrates.
Caesar.
García Lorca.
I have met men in jail with style.
I have met more men in jail with style than men out of jail.
Style is a difference, a way of doing, a way of being done.
Six herons standing quietly in a pool of water, or you, walking
out of the bathroom without seeing me.

thats classic bukowski
or as the late great jack micheline
(a buk fave) put down

Only Rare Things Create

When love creates
When tenderness creates
It is the greatest of all sounds
When man and woman creates a baby is born
When fear creates anger is born
When loneliness creates despair is born
When business creates hype is born
When newspapers create politicians are born
When art galleries create money is born
Cemeteries don't create
Museums don't create
Hospitals don't create
Prisons don't create
Power don't create
Only love creates
and it is the rarest thing of all
 
Last edited by a moderator:
cynthiaozick.jpg


Yep... definitely a hottie. And she even looks a little like Bea Arthur.

Jumping in too late here to see the image, but the words "hottie" and "bea arthur" should never be used together in the same sentence. Bea Arthur is the anti-hottie.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top